[QuickGold]

Park hours for the second half of October 2009 have been increased as well as additional showings of Fantasmic! have been added.

[Mouseoholic]

I hope this is a sign of things to come for December! It seems during most days of our trip that everything shuts down at 8:00 - 9:00 p.m.

[QuickGold]

Disney has basically set the park hours low and then as each new month comes, they re-evaluate the park hours and the past few months we've seen increases.

I just wish Disney would release the park hours based on what they've historically been and stop cutting park hours only to raise them later. It makes it more difficult to plan trips.

[YoPaulie]

I don't think the actual attendance matches their historical numbers.

[QuickGold]

YoPaulie, on Oct 9 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

I don't think the actual attendance matches their historical numbers.

Anyone who's been to WDW this year will say it's not like it's been a ghost town by any means and certainly people are coming, they just arent spending like they used to. But the cut in hours across the board seems overkill to me.

[Rinjo]

QuickGold, on Oct 10 2009, 02:53 AM, said:

Anyone who's been to WDW this year will say it's not like it's been a ghost town by any means and certainly people are coming, they just arent spending like they used to. But the cut in hours across the board seems overkill to me.

I really wonder what the correlation between spending and hours is as apposed to attendance and hours. If the typical family is switching from dinner int he parks to dinner offsite or dinner in a TS to dinner in CS there has to be a proportional drop in profits... When the average park guest is spending the bulk of their money on park entry you have to start losing money in those final hours of park opening...


This is the problem with a public company.

Walt nearly bankrupted the company soo many times... but he set the tone for Customer service... unfortunately, when you are public, there is not the same capability to ride things out in the red to maintain market share and brand integrity...

[QuickGold]

Rinjo, on Oct 14 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

I really wonder what the correlation between spending and hours is as apposed to attendance and hours. If the typical family is switching from dinner int he parks to dinner offsite or dinner in a TS to dinner in CS there has to be a proportional drop in profits... When the average park guest is spending the bulk of their money on park entry you have to start losing money in those final hours of park opening...

For me, the longer I have to spend in the parks, the more likely I'm going to spend my money in the parks. If I'm at Animal Kingdom, where the park closes at 5, I know I'm going to make sure I spend a majority of my time at attractions and will put off food and merchandise spending because there isn't time for it. On the flip side, if I'm at Magic Kingdom on a night where it closes at 11pm or later, I can allocate time for meals or merchandise because I know I will still have time to do everything I want to.

[Mouseoholic]

Matt,

Great article today on the October hours and just hours in general you posted today. It does make planning difficult when they boost part hours as you get closer to your vacation. It is very frustrating especially when they are offering free dining and I already have my reservations and it just is not that easy to switch them. I am a huge planner. You should see the spreadsheets I develop for each trip. It takes me weeks of research to get everything just perfect. When Disney makes last minute changes it just sends me into orbit.... I even take vacation from work to do this and then vacation the day my ADR's open up. But....that is a personal problem.

On the subject of spending....we are just not willing to sacrifice our favorite dining locations, segway tours and special events. This is the first year we are struggling to come up with the x,xxx$ for this trip. We are eating at home and spending less. I think the die-hard fans are doing what it takes to still have the same quality of a vacation despite the economy. Thankfully both my husband have not lost our jobs....

While I hope they adjust the hours for December too, I am on pins and needles to see how it will affect my plans.

[QuickGold]

I think you've proven what Disney knows, and that's that its customers are extremely loyal to the brand. You're willing to forgo a few of life's luxuries if it means a trip back to Disney World but you certainly wouldn't make that kind of sacrifice for a trip to like the Grand Canyon or New York City...you'd simply so "Oh well, another time".

This is why Disney doesn't offer a rewards program or anything like that in my opinion....they know folks will return because people really love the Disney brand and the parks.

[COH#1fan]

QuickGold, on Oct 15 2009, 11:56 AM, said:

I think you've proven what Disney knows, and that's that its customers are extremely loyal to the brand. You're willing to forgo a few of life's luxuries if it means a trip back to Disney World but you certainly wouldn't make that kind of sacrifice for a trip to like the Grand Canyon or New York City...you'd simply so "Oh well, another time".

This is why Disney doesn't offer a rewards program or anything like that in my opinion....they know folks will return because people really love the Disney brand and the parks.

I wish to disagree. First of all, Di$ney is becoming more expensive by the near-year. As an independent individual with expenses like rent, food, psychiatric counseling, I find it very difficult to get to the parks, both logistically and financially. Do you know what I had to go through and how much money it cost me just to Amtrak it all the way from New York to Kissimmee and then to Di$ney itself? I could have easily stayed at my sister's condo and saved money for lodgings, but the transportation would not have been feasible (I don't have/want a driver's license, and I don't trust the LYNX bus system).

That's number one.

Number two is Disney makes bone-headed business decisions like the ones that we're discussing now. It's as if they don't care about the guests who willingly give their money to this greedy, corrupt, money-grabbing scum of a corporation and use it for whatever purposes they use it for. Hey, remember the World of Disney Store in NYC? The one that was run from the Parks and Resorts division with the opportunity to meet your favorite Disney characters? Well it's going away at the end of this year now due to high rent caused by the accursed recession. I'm still under the impression that they are going to locate, but whether it's going to be the same kind of experience is up to the suits. We could tell them how we feel until we're blue in the face, but the only reply they'd give (that's clean enough for this board, at least) is to stick their fingers in their ears, shut their eyes, turn their backs and sing at the top of their lungs, "LALALALALALALA I DON'T HEEEEEEEEEAR UUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And what really stinks about dealing with Di$ney is that they always keep coming up with schemes like releasing Snow White (again, but this time on DVD and Blu-Ray) and promoting The Princess and the Frog so many times in the hopes that people will actually go see the movie in order to win the public's favor. Keep them drinking the Kool-aid or whatever. I don't like it at all, and I really want to just look the suits right in the eyes and say, "You are never getting another dime out of me again, no matter how many times you keep drawing me in."

And please, don't ask me why I'm on a Disney forum if all I do is complain about it. It's this kind of talk that got me banned from the DIS (FOR NO GOOD REASON!!! ), broken up with my last girlfriend (I don't care if she finds this message. For all I know, she could have deleted herself off the Internet forever I can only hope.), and leave me closer and closer into debt (well, maybe not that much, but I did have to come up with a third). I think I'll shut up now.

[QuickGold]

The points you raise Pete all go back to the brand loyalty Disney has. If FedEx decides to raise its rates and charge more and take away services/perks to its customers, their customers will use UPS or DHL or the post office. Why? Because they don't have any real allegiance to FedEx.

With Disney, it's different. People have literally grown up with the Disney brand for many of us on this site, we've been going to Disney World most of our lives and we love it. So when Disney does these kind of things, we don't jump ship because we recognize the power and value of the Disney brand and we do have an allegiance to Disney because of what it means to us.

[YoPaulie]

That and I still think the value is worth the cost.

I'm the first to admit the value has gone down in recent years, of course, but to me it's still worth the price.

[COH#1fan]

QuickGold, on Oct 15 2009, 07:30 PM, said:

The points you raise Pete all go back to the brand loyalty Disney has. If FedEx decides to raise its rates and charge more and take away services/perks to its customers, their customers will use UPS or DHL or the post office. Why? Because they don't have any real allegiance to FedEx.

With Disney, it's different. People have literally grown up with the Disney brand for many of us on this site, we've been going to Disney World most of our lives and we love it. So when Disney does these kind of things, we don't jump ship because we recognize the power and value of the Disney brand and we do have an allegiance to Disney because of what it means to us.

My loyalty to Disney is only as strong as the amount of money in my bank account. That, and I haven't truly discovered the power of Disney's influence until my first trip in '89. Before that I was like, "This family can't go to Disney World! Nobody can go to Disney World!" Boy, was I proven wrong. Even if money wasn't a problem, how would I get there? I dislike airports, I don't recommend long distance train travel, and I neither have nor want a driver's license for a road trip which would be a little bit shorter than long-distance train travel. In short, my traveling days are over.

So what's the only option? Bring a bit of the Disney Magic into my backyard. That's what the World of Disney NYC was for, but that's going away soon. When that goes, what's left? Nothing. And I can't spend any money even at home because I need it to pay rent, buy food, etc. I know you're getting tired of hearing these complaints over and over, but believe me, I'm just as sick of having to complain like this over and over.

I blame my ex-girlfriend who influenced me of how Disney is ripping each and every one of us off and that we should stop visiting their parks until they get better.

[chopsva]

COH#1fan, on Oct 15 2009, 08:41 PM, said:

My loyalty to Disney is only as strong as the amount of money in my bank account. That, and I haven't truly discovered the power of Disney's influence until my first trip in '89. Before that I was like, "This family can't go to Disney World! Nobody can go to Disney World!" Boy, was I proven wrong. Even if money wasn't a problem, how would I get there? I dislike airports, I don't recommend long distance train travel, and I neither have nor want a driver's license for a road trip which would be a little bit shorter than long-distance train travel. In short, my traveling days are over.....

1st, I'm really sorry you feel this way. Di$ney is a comapny, and a company needs to make money. Now, how they go about that can be good and can be bad. As Matt has stated, Di$ney has a great brand and with it comes a preset level of expectation that kind of can let Di$ney "slack off" alittle and still get the people to come. Remember we have most likely been to WDW more than once, read about Di$ney on a regular basis (hence this forum) so we see the "slacking" of the experience BUT does a 1st time guest see the same thing? Most likely not. This is why if we Disney Fans started a boycott and demanded things change, changes would be few if any since Di$ney will still be able to lure new guests into the parks on the Di$ney brand.

It sounds like right now you are focusing on the negatives about Di$ney (closing TDSNYC, travel issues). When I start getting like this with something, I try to force myself to focus on what I like(d) about the thing that is upsetting me now. Your username is COH#1 so maybe go back and watch YouTubes of the COHs and just enjoy them. Don't think about how they are being cut back or are gone already, just enjoy them.

As far as transportation to WDW, I looked at Amtrak from NY to Orlando one way is 24hrs and starts at $200+!! AirTran from LaGuardia is 4-7 hrs and starts at $89 (and you get the bonus of stopping my town Newport News for 35min in one of those flights) If you travel on a Tues -- Thurs the airport experience will not be too bad and Orlando is a very easy airport to navigate. If you stay at Scopa Towers or All-Star Xxxxxx, the Disney Magical Express would be available to/from the Orlando Airport.

Sorry for the rambling response.
Ken

[QuickGold]

YoPaulie, on Oct 15 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

That and I still think the value is worth the cost.

I'm the first to admit the value has gone down in recent years, of course, but to me it's still worth the price.

I agree. Despite the cutbacks of the last 10 or so years (in my opinion, the cutbacks started after 9/11 although some cutbacks were re instituted), Disney World is still worth the money, however, I feel like things have been generally moving towards the value becoming less and less rather than it sliding the other way.

[chopsva]

Just to play devil's advocate here...
You say the "value becoming less and less rather than it sliding the other way."
If one compares the "value" of Disney vs. another destination about say 10 years ago (to match your time frame) was the Disney value so far above the other destinations that maybe it was alittle too good of a value and as times change maintainig the superior value was not posible?
(Remember just devil's advocate)

[QuickGold]

chopsva, on Oct 16 2009, 12:05 PM, said:

Just to play devil's advocate here...
You say the "value becoming less and less rather than it sliding the other way."
If one compares the "value" of Disney vs. another destination about say 10 years ago (to match your time frame) was the Disney value so far above the other destinations that maybe it was alittle too good of a value and as times change maintainig the superior value was not posible?
(Remember just devil's advocate)

Let's also remember that Disney World costs more than other destinations, such as the premium price it charges for its resorts compared to the price off-site. That being said, the prices have remained high while value has subsided, which is the problem.